Audio transcript: Kevin Dalton-Johnson

Why do you believe the Benin sculptures should be returned to Africa?

I believe they should go back because the original ownership was back in Africa, in Nigeria, where they had a very specific function, which cannot take place whilst in the confines of a gallery in a glass box. And when we look at how they were forcibly removed, I really can’t think of a good argument as to why they shouldn’t now, now that we’ve moved on, why they shouldn’t actually be returned to their original home.

The pieces, the Benin bronzes that we’re referring to, were culturally very important, because they actually served very specific roles. But I think what happened is once they were taken out of that context, it was the beauty and the very powerful African aesthetic that gave them value in a Western context. Whereas in the African context yes, that beauty was still there. But they had a specific function in terms of how the community went forth, and then that was suddenly disrupted when they were removed.

That’s the main reason why I feel they should be returned, so that they can be properly understood by all, black and white. I think we’ll all have a better understanding of their function and their aesthetics, from their original location.

Who owns the Benin sculptures?

I think they belong to all Africans and all diasporic Africans. That’s part of our cultural heritage. It’s our right. Whether they stay or whether they move, the choice should be ours. And I don’t understand why we’re not given the choice. I mean we’re told that the colonial legacy is now finished. Everything’s okay. So that being the case, why don’t we have equal say in terms of where those bronzes should go? And that doesn’t appear to be happening now.

When they were first taken, we had no say. We had no choice when they were taken away. Surely now, we should have some say in terms of where we would like these pieces to go. They could just as well be situated in Africa, and loaned to other galleries. Or the public can view them via the internet and via cyberspace and other means. The ownership does not have to remain here for everybody to share those pieces.

And I’m sure, well I know from talking to Africans, they feel quite strongly. They were ours. They should come home, end of story. If we were to invade England and take some of your key artefacts, you’d be saying to me, ‘What’s the big deal? They belong to us. So why don’t you give them back?’

Are Western museums the best place for the Benin sculptures?

I don’t think exhibiting them in the Western museums can provide the correct or wholly correct information. Because they’re being read out of context, they’re so far removed.

African diasporic people like myself, who are trying to find a sense of self and identity, will look to their cultural heritage. And where is their cultural heritage? In a gallery. In a museum. And who is telling us about our cultural heritage? Somebody who is not necessarily from our culture, is telling us about it from their perspective. So as African diasporic people, where does that leave us in terms of understanding our true identity? It leaves us displaced. And on that level you can see there are many kind of parallels between the Benin bronze displacement and the displacement that is experienced by African diasporics like myself.

Whereas if they were placed in their original context, with their original usage of meaning, then I think we’d be better informed about the Benin bronzes. And I think all of the public would gain from that information.

Haven’t Western museums done a good job looking after the Benin sculptures?

I think the western institutions that have the sculptures may well have done a very good job in looking after the Benin bronzes. That is not the question.

To say that they are being cared for now, and are being looked after now, implies that we were incapable of looking after them before they were taken. And it almost justifies their removal. This is another part of the colonial legacy, I feel, where we have the implication that black people are not capable of looking after things for themselves. And I just think this is so wrong. And through such arguments, it’s almost as if the colonial legacy is still at play, ‘Well, you know, we’ll look after it for you, because you’re not capable’. We’re more than capable of looking after them. And we’re more than capable of making decisions about where they should go, who should see them, and their usage. If, for example, we felt we couldn’t look after them. Then surely we should make that decision to say ‘move the bronzes in case such and such happens’.

To what extent are attitudes changing within Western museums?

I actually think we’re moving in a very positive direction.

Sharing is a good thing, you know, loaning pieces to different museums. Sharing expertise, where you have, you know, different specialists from different museums, actually crossing over to other museums. That’s a positive thing.

Most museums now are gaining an understanding that if we are to have a correct and true interpretation of artefacts from other cultures, then it is better, rather than producing an anthropological or ethnographic account, which is often skewed by a Western perception, that you’re best to speak to the people, the original owners, to get the correct information. And I know for a fact at Manchester Museum, there was an exhibition called ‘Collective Conversations’, and there were quite a few artefacts from the Somalian communities. Rather than having the curator from within the museum telling us what it meant, they actually brought in Somalian people from the community to provide specific information and interpretations of those pieces. So that everybody, local communities and the general public, were getting the correct information about those artefacts. That to me is a positive thing.